Evan Chandler & Dave Schwartz Phone Transcript

CONVERSATION 1 
 
Between Dave Schwartz and Evan Chandler

MR. CHANDLER: — discuss why it might be harmful. Suppose I’m right? I mean, if Michael loves [tape irregularity] Lisa, at least want to hear my opinion about why what’s going on could be potentially harmful? If you love somebody, you don’t want them to get hurt.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you want to talk it in front of Jordy, about that?

MR. CHANDLER: Huh?

MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you want to talk about that in front of Jordy?

MR. CHANDLER: Oh, yeah, absolutely. He has to be there.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: He has to be there, and one of the reasons that he has to be there is because he’s always gonna remember it. Somebody has to be the—there’s gotta be some one person that later on in life he can look back on and kind of pattern himself after someone or have some structure for his own existence, based on—he’ll look at me, and he’ll say, “Yeah. He was honest, he had integrity, he had respect. I could trust him. He never lied to me,” all that kind of stuff.

He may hate me now. He may not be able to articulate all of those things in his own head right now, but when he sees it, it’ll be in his head, and when he’s old enough there will be those things that will be important to him. Hopefully I’ll be able to portray those things to him, because I think they’re important.

I also think it’s incredibly important to have somebody else in your life that really loves you and you really love them, because if you’re [tape irregularity] happy. I’ve never seen a single solo, isolated human being who was truly happy—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —and that’s what’s going to happen to Jordy. I think that’s June’s situation.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: June has nobody. You tell me who June has. You tell me who June has who really loves her, who she really loves back. You can’t think of one person.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, I can.

MR. CHANDLER: Who?

MR. SCHWARTZ: Gloria.

MR. CHANDLER: Gloria.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Really.

MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible.)

MR. SCHWARTZ: Gloria, Nadine or Florence. She’s pretty close with her friends.

MR. CHANDLER: Nah, she’s—

MR. SCHWARTZ: She’s—wait.

MR. CHANDLER: She believes that—

MR. SCHWARTZ: She’s close with you.

MR. CHANDLER: —four or five cups of caffeine in the morning and gets on the phone and yaps (inaudible) all day, you commiserate about their miseries—

MR. SCHWARTZ: But, you know, here’s the whole thing. We can’t, you know, I can’t put her down that all she’s doing is hanging out. It’s not so horrible.

MR. CHANDLER: That what?

MR. SCHWARTZ: That, you know, I mean, she’s into hanging out.

MR. CHANDLER: Hanging out is okay.

MR. SCHWARTZ: I know. She’s—

MR. CHANDLER: Hanging out’s kind of a benign thing. She’s not hanging out anymore. When she stopped hanging out—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —and became actively destructive in Jordy’s life is when I stepped in and when I decided I have to do something about it. I tried to talk to her about it, Dave, on several occasions.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, we know she’s hard to talk to.

MR. CHANDLER: Well, if you could—if you could—yes. I mean, that’s unquestionable. She *is* impossible to talk to. And I’ve never really—I mean, I’ve gotten angry with her many times and—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —[tape irregularity] long as you’ve stepped in—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

MR. CHANDLER: —the issue has never involved potentially harming Jordy for the rest of his life—

MR. SCHWARTZ: [Tape irregularity.]

MR. CHANDLER: —issues over Jordy before that I’ve backed down—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —because you asked me to or whatever the reason was—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —and I’ve never been—I’ve never been that set on pursuing it until now because I truly believe this will damage him for the rest of his life. And she will not—and I’ve told her that, and I’ve tried to talk to her about that—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —and she’s not willing to talk to me about it.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: She doesn’t even want to hear what might be harming him.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: She doesn’t want to even know—she doesn’t want to hear any words.

MR. SCHWARTZ: What if—

MR. CHANDLER: “Get out of my face. Don’t even mention that.” That’s not an issue for her.

I mean, what kind of person is that? If—I stopped taking that personally.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, we all have different ways of coping.

MR. CHANDLER: You see, as an adult, coping’s no excuse. That’s like driving drunk and saying, “I’m sorry, but I didn’t realize there was a law against driving drunk,” and you just ran on the sidewalk.

The fact is you’re a responsible adult. You’re supposed to have some sense and judgment, and that’s how it’s going to go down.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. How about if you, June and I get together?

MR. CHANDLER: No. Why do you keep doing that?

MR. SCHWARTZ: Because I don’t—I don’t want to subject Jordy to this until—I mean, I feel very uncomfortable—

MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you this way: I have a set routine of words that I’m going to go in there that have been rehearsed and I’m going to say.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: Okay? Because I don’t—

MR. CHANDLER: —want to say anything that could be used against me.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: So I know exactly what I can say. That’s why I’m bringing the tape recorder.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: I have some things on paper to show a few people—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —and that’s it. My whole part is going to take two or three minutes, and I’m going to turn around [tape irregularity], and that’s it. There’s not going to be anything said, other than what I’ve been told to say—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —and I’m going to turn around and leave, and they’re going to have a decision to make.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: And based on that decision, I’ll decide whether or not we’re going to talk again or whether it’s going to go further.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: I have to make a phone call. As soon as I leave the house, I get on the telephone.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: I make a phone call.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: Say “Go” or I say, “Don’t go yet,” and that’s—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —the way it’s gonna be.

I’ve been told what to do, and I have to do it. I’m not—I happen to know what’s going to be going on, see? They don’t have to say anything to me. [Tape irregularity] “You have refused to listen to me. Now you’re going to have to listen to me. This is my position. Give it a thought.”

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: “Think it over.”

I’m not saying anything bad about anybody, okay? I’ve got it all on paper.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: I’m going to hand out the paper so that I don’t inadvertently [tape irregularity], handing out the paper, “Michael, here’s your paper. June, here’s your paper.”

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: “Compare papers. Read this whole thing. This is my feelings about it. Do you want to talk further? We’ll talk again.”

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: “If you don’t” [tape irregularity]—but, see, all I’m trying to do now, they have forced me to go [tape irregularity] on paper and give it to them to read—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —because [tape irregularity]. I mean, isn’t that pitiful?

Now, why would they want to cut me out, to go this far, spend this much money, spend so much time in my life crying, being away from my practice, not paying [tape irregularity] everybody else? Why would they want to put me through that?

And I made it very clear to June that she was putting me through that because I didn’t want any misunderstandings. I’ve done everything I could to appeal to her. (Inaudible) is cold and heart—absolutely cold and heartless. That’s all—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, maybe on the surface it appears like that, but I—

MR. CHANDLER: I know on the surface June is charming—

MR. SCHWARTZ: No, no. I think on the surface it might appear cold, but I don’t—I don’t agree with that.

MR. CHANDLER: Dave, “Go fuck yourself” is not a surface reaction.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Have you ever—you mean you have never done that, right?

MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) and they say “Go fuck yourself,” that’s not a surface—

MR. SCHWARTZ: You’ve never done it?

MR. CHANDLER: —sorry.

MR. SCHWARTZ: You’ve never done it? I mean, have you ever got pissed at a friend and gotten in an argument for three weeks?

MR. CHANDLER: No, no, no.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Never, ever?

MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) —like that, Dave, not consistently like that.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Well—

MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) —so far as to go to say, “Okay. Forget about me. This is what’s going on with Jordan. This is my concern,” and have her say “Go fuck yourself” again. So [tape irregularity] there I said, “This is not a human being I’m dealing with anymore.”

MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me ask you this—I mean, did you give Jordy any ultimatums?

MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Because, see, that’s how he feels trapped, I think.

MR. CHANDLER: Too bad.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, why—I mean—

MR. CHANDLER: All he has to do is talk to me about it.

MR. SCHWARTZ: I know, but how can you—I mean, you know what you could do—I mean, couldn’t you approach it like saying, “Jordy, this is how I feel. This is why communications is important. We gotta discuss this.”

MR. CHANDLER: This is what I said to Jordy. I said, “What if I asked you not to do something?” That’s how I put it.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: He said, “I wouldn’t care.”

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: That’s what he said.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, what’s wrong with that?

MR. CHANDLER: What’s wrong?

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I mean, what is wrong with that?

MR. CHANDLER: Well, let me ask you this: Never in his life, ever, would he have—did he ever respond that way or would he have ever responded that way—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —which means that something has happened inside of him and in his life that is now making him respond to me in a totally different way. What has happened to him? His mother’s changed, and Michael’s in his life, and you weren’t there to balance it out. And that’s it.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, and I wasn’t there, and you’re right.

MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.

MR. SCHWARTZ: I wasn’t there to discuss it with him.

MR. CHANDLER: So the whole thing—

MR. CHANDLER: —happened.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

MR. CHANDLER: And that’s it.

MR. SCHWARTZ: So blame me.

MR. CHANDLER: Oh, I’m not blaming you.

MR. SCHWARTZ: But it *is* my fault.

MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible.)

MR. SCHWARTZ: It’s my fault. I wasn’t there to—

MR. CHANDLER: No, no. You don’t understand. We’re gonna see whose fault it is. And I’m gonna tell you: It isn’t up to you to decide whose fault it is or up to me to decide whose fault it is. Other people who are trained to [tape irregularity] whose fault it is are going to make that decision, and I’ll bet you anything that they don’t decide that it’s your fault.

You’re not going to get blamed, and you can go and say whatever you want. No one’s [tape irregularity] — they may say, “That’s very nice. Get the fuck out of here, and let’s get down to the real issues,” but that’s it. That’s what’s going to happen. I’m not getting blamed and you’re not getting blamed. And that’s — I mean —

MR. SCHWARTZ: But no one should get blamed. I mean—

MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) talking about bottom line because that’s what it’s really going to come down to—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —bottom line, no one’s gonna give a shit about you in this issue.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: So when you tell me that I should blame you, that’s not the bottom line. That’s not how it’s going to be seen (simultaneous, inaudible).

MR. SCHWARTZ: But does there have to be where someone’s at fault? Can’t it be where we just work it out?

MR. CHANDLER: Well, you see—yeah. That’s why I tried to get in touch with them, to (simultaneous, inaudible) work it out—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, well, but that’s—wait.

MR. CHANDLER: —but they don’t want to talk to me.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Well, that’s not true. That is not true.

MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) till tomorrow—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Have you ever gone through a period where you just didn’t—wait. Of course you have. Of course you have.

MR. CHANDLER: Dave—

MR. SCHWARTZ: When I screamed at Monique to get you to call me.

MR. CHANDLER: So what? That was one day. Two days.

MR. SCHWARTZ: But it didn’t matter—it can’t count the days.

MR. CHANDLER: Well, I have to count the days because I can’t let it go on forever.

By the way, they’re going on tour on August 15th. They’re going to be gone. They’re going to be out of the country—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —for four months.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Is that bad?

MR. CHANDLER: Well, I’m not going to be able to communicate with them about this when they’re gone, am I?

MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, but you think that—

MR. CHANDLER: By the way, they’re not going.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: They don’t know that yet, but they are not going.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: So, I mean, especially if they don’t show up tomorrow, they’re definitely not going. They’ll be lucky if Michael even—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Let me ask you—let me ask you this—

MR. CHANDLER: —tour (inaudible) get canceled.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me—let me ask you this: I mean, why can’t you meet—why can’t we meet after I get off work?

MR. CHANDLER: Because—

MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, why not? What’s the difference?

MR. CHANDLER: Seems to me it’s not important enough for you to take off work to be—

MR. SCHWARTZ: It *is* important enough, but I still—

MR. CHANDLER: Fuck your job.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.

MR. CHANDLER: It’s still going to be there at 8:35. This whole thing’s going to take five minutes.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: I’ve already told you I have—I’m not allowed to say anything more—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —than I’ve already prepared. It’s on paper.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Is it your—

MR. CHANDLER: I’m not going in to—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Is it because of your attorney?

MR. CHANDLER: What?

MR. SCHWARTZ: Because of your attorney?

MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Why don’t we meet at your attorney’s office?

MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s something we can do *if* we get past tomorrow.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: He’s willing to meet with them. Right now he’d like to kill them all. I picked the nastiest mother-fucker I could find.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: The only reason that I’m meeting with them tomorrow is, the real fact of the matter is—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: —because of Monique.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: Monique begged me to do it.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: She said, “You’re out of control”—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Can Monique be there?

MR. CHANDLER: Tomorrow?

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

MR. CHANDLER: She wanted to be there, but—

MR. SCHWARTZ: I want her to be there.

MR. CHANDLER: I wouldn’t let her.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Why? Why not?

MR. CHANDLER: Because June hates Monique.

MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s not true.

MR. CHANDLER: Well, you know something?

MR. SCHWARTZ: That is not true—

MR. CHANDLER: Now—

MR. SCHWARTZ: —at all.

MR. CHANDLER: Well, really! Well, then that makes Jordy a liar, and that makes Michael a liar.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?

MR. CHANDLER: They both told me that Monique—that June—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. You can’t see that whole thing?

MR. CHANDLER: What?

MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s woman jealousy.

MR. CHANDLER: I don’t care what—

MR. SCHWARTZ: It doesn’t matter—

MR. CHANDLER: The problem is you’re in love with her so you keep on making excuses.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.

MR. CHANDLER: I’m not in love with her anymore. I don’t even like her anymore.

MR. SCHWARTZ: You don’t know about female jealousy?

MR. CHANDLER: I don’t care about that.

MR. SCHWARTZ: That has nothing—

MR. CHANDLER: (Inaudible) Dave. That’s pathologic. I don’t want that affecting—

MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s not pathologic. That is the bottom line.

MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) pathologic. I don’t care what the reason is. I don’t care. I’m not playing psychiatrist and analyzing.

MR. SCHWARTZ: But why wouldn’t you want Monique there? I would feel much more comfortable.

MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible), that’s why.

MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?

MR. CHANDLER: Because June hates her, so I don’t want to—

MR. SCHWARTZ: She does not hate her.

MR. CHANDLER: Of course she hates her.

MR. SCHWARTZ: She totally respects her and doesn’t hate her.

MR. CHANDLER: Well, then, Jordy is a liar and Michael (inaudible)—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.

MR. CHANDLER: —because they told me verbatim, together—

MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah?